• Says Adebanjo endorsed Peter Obi in 2023 without telling anybody
• Explains how Fasoranti endorsed Tinubu for president despite supplanting his leadership
By Dapo Akinrefon
Chief Ademola Folarin, a lawyer, is the General Secretary of the pan-Yoruba socio-political organisation, Afenifere. Folarin, who is the Agbaakin Maiyegun of Ibadanland, in this interview, speaks on the leadership crisis in Afenifere, reconciliation in the group, and the decision of the Yoruba body to endorse President Bola Tinubu for 2027 among other issues. Excerpts:
There have been issues in the polity ahead of 2027, parties have been trading accusations; there is mudslinging. Do you think this is healthy for our democracy?
Look, adversarial politics is one of the hallmarks of democracy. You have to destroy one party in order for you to rise. It’s one of the pitfalls of democracy that we can’t avoid, which is why some people say democracy is not the best form of government. But we haven’t found a better one. I think we are just being dishonest. There is a better one, it’s not necessarily democratic. We can see it in China, we can see it in the Gulf states, a combination of constitutionalism and monarchy. In China, there is no monarchy, but they have a system of evolutionary leadership, and it is working. The trouble spots in the world are the democracies. Just look around you, everywhere you see a problem, it’s democratic. That’s because it has to be like that. If you want to see the downfall of someone to rise, you can’t have peace, you can’t have stability. The bastion of democracy, Europe and America, are on the decline. It’s consistent with the aims and objectives of the founding fathers of democracy. It was foreseen, but it was unavoidable. If you choose your leaders based purely on numbers, you cannot avoid obvious mistakes. In our country, with the presidential system, it is the same in America. We have simply imported a corrupt system here, presidential system. If you don’t have money, you can’t do anything. That’s what you have. Mudslinging, everything is part of it.
Nigeria has practised the parliamentary system before. Now, it’s practising the presidential system. Which do you think Nigeria can adopt? Do you think it should jettison the two and have another system of government?
It’s a no-brainer which one should prefer between the Westminster parliamentary system and the presidential system. The Westminster parliamentary system is far cheaper and far more representative. Why do I say so? If I want to be prime minister, I don’t need to do a national campaign or whatever. I go to Eti-Osa local government, campaign and win there. Once I win there and my party wins the majority of seats in parliament, I form government. But in presidential, I have to win the majority of votes in the entire country. Then at least 25 per cent of the total number of votes cast in each of at least two-thirds of the number of states in the federation. In this case, 24 states. I have to campaign in the entire country. I need the entire country to vote for me; even without corruption, that is a lot of money. Well, there must be corruption. It’s a no-brainer. We can’t just import a system and think it will work without any modification.
We’ve seen groups, opposition parties, throwing their weight behind preferred candidates. Has Afenifere adopted a candidate for the presidential election?
We announced it about a month ago. We supported President Bola Tinubu in 2023. We have no reason to change our mind now. We have also endorsed him. Look, as far as any discerning, objective person can see, there is no alternative. There is no viable alternative. There are alternatives, but they are not better and they are not viable. On what basis would we jettison the person we support? In any event, personally speaking for myself, I would score him on two fronts. When you combine the scores and find the average, you can decide whether that’s a pass or not. On macroeconomics, I score him 80 per cent. On micro, I score him 40 per cent. Now, 80 plus 40 is 120. Over 200, that’s 60 per cent. On security, we can see progressively there’s improvement. We’re not there yet. On many fronts, what this government is doing is resetting the entire structure. I mean, laying the foundation for a new Nigeria. Now, it comes with pains. No pain, no gain. It comes with pains. Obviously, the macroeconomic aspect of it is still evolving. But you cannot deny the success of the macroeconomics. You cannot.
The numbers are there. You cannot dispute them. There is still a lot to be done. You can point out a few things that they haven’t done right. But show me a government that has been perfect. What’s the alternative? What is the economic policy of Atiku? Do you know? What is the economic policy of Obi? Do you know? Their policy is just to be consistent with adversarial politics, destroy Tinubu. That’s all. Atiku goes to America to probe Tinubu’s certificates. That is what will put food on your table. Or that is what will stop insecurity. Or that is what will stop inflation. All they are doing is to bring the president down. It is well within their right because democracy allows them to do so. So we support Tinubu. I say that categorically because we have already said that. We support President Tinubu for a second time. He deserves it now even more than what he deserved in 2023. In 2023, we supported him based on two things. First was experience. He was the most experienced of all the candidates. Atiku has never held a chief executive position. He was vice president.
What of Peter Obi?
What was his performance compared with Tinubu? The figures are there. There’s nothing to show. They said education was good in his time. His successors said there were some outfits that were not doctoring educational results. Two, what is the educational status of Anambra State today? What is the legacy? Not what you did then, but what survived you. There’s a difference. Tinubu re-engineered the economy of Lagos. That is sustained. You see, there are so many things he has done. You have seen the foundation he laid for Free Trade Zone which has brought in Dangote. You’ve seen what he has done with the Atlantic Ocean. So many things.
You said it that Afenifere has adopted President Bola Tinubu. I have it on good authority that the other camp, which is Oba Oladipo Olaitan’s camp, is backing another candidate…
He is free to do so. You asked me a question and I have answered you. If somebody else wants to adopt somebody else, that is no problem. But I have told you there’s no viable alternative. Be honest with yourself, can Adebayo (SDP presidential candidate) win his own local government? No, but there’s no need to beat about the bush. One thing about Afenifere is that it’s a democratic organisation. Even as I tell you that Afenifere has endorsed President Tinubu, there are members who are supporting other candidates. If Oba Olaitan feels that Adebayo is his candidate, good luck to him.
That brings me to Afenifere itself. The death of Pa Reuben Fasoranti has renewed the eternal rift within your group. Two weeks ago, Oba Laitan announced that he is now the consecrated leader of Afenifere. Is your own group is in support of what he has done?
Although Chief Olu Falae said there should be no talk about leadership succession until after the burial of Pa Fasoranti, isn’t that the sensible, wise thing to do? Why are you discussing leadership? You have not even buried the leader that left. Olu Falae has said the right thing. What is the desperation about?
But he issued a statement…
He can make any statement he likes, but I think it’s a disservice, dishonour, and discredit to the memory of Pa Fasoranti to be discussing leadership while his remains have not been buried. We don’t operate like that. All these things about “I am the leader”, to what end is it really? How does it serve the interests of the Yoruba people that we represent or the unity of Nigeria that we fight for? We don’t engage in such talk.
The last time we met, you hinted that there were reconciliatory moves. How far have you gone about that?
Before Pa Reuben Fasoranti died, we thought that it would have been done…You raised a good point, but that effort has even taken a more dynamic dimension. By the way, Oba Oladipo Olaitan mentioned it in one of his releases that “what a life”. Just a week before Papa’s death, he received a letter inviting him for a family meeting as part of reconciliation. It shows the kind of person Pa Fasoranti was. But we had to step down that meeting because of the burial arrangement. So, it’s ongoing. We will never give up on bringing everybody back under the same roof. Look, at the end of the day, it’s the same Afenifere. We may have misunderstanding here and there, but everybody has agreed that divided we fall, united we stand. That is it. We are more effective. We are more productive. We serve a purpose when we come together. Everybody knows that. Look, you come here telling me “somebody said this”. Is that good for us? It’s not. So we all know. But, you know, as with all human beings, you have to do things gradually. You have to be patient. Delay is consistent with the eventual peaceful outcome. If you want a peaceful outcome, there will be delays. You have to drag some people ahead. And when you want to drag them, it has to be that they are ready to follow you. You must not give up.
Is it true that there are plans to install a former governor as the new leader of Afenifere?
Which former governor?
Otunba Gbenga Daniel…
Everybody is free to have an ambition. There are no plans. Well, okay, maybe he and some people are planning. I don’t know.
It is the Fasoranti camp…
There is no such plan. There is no plan to install anybody. But when we finish the burial, we will all come together and decide who the leader will be. If Otunba Gbenga Daniel is interested, he should declare his interest. If the people, the elders and leaders think he deserves to be leader…
How does a leader emerge in Afenifere?
How do you choose a pope?
It is the conclave of Cardinals…
That’s the way it works too. It’s not elected. It’s not a political party. No. A conclave of elders and leaders. More importantly, if the leader was still alive, he would say this is the person I want. But in the absence of that, a conclave of leaders and elders. You don’t become a leader or an elder simply because you say “I’m Afenifere”. We want to see what you’ve been doing in Afenifere. Are you a force for unity? Or are you a force for division? Or are you a force for yourself? Are you a politically exposed person? If you are fighting in political parties, and you have lost respect in that fray, you can’t be a leader of an organisation that represents the moral conscience of the people. You can’t be partisan, rabid partisan, someone who has been cut apart in different parties and want to be our leader. It’s not possible. Look at Pa Fasoranti. What bad thing can you say about him? Even his enemies loved him. That is the kind of person people will respect. President Tinubu was one of those who tried to supplant the leadership of Pa Fasoranti when he was made leader in 2008. And they went to form Egbe Ilosiwaju. But what did Baba Fasoranti do in 2023?
He endorsed him…
Not because Tinubu asked for endorsement. He called him to be endorsed. Tinubu did not lobby for Afenifere endorsement.
But the late Pa Adebanjo…
That’s the difference between Adebanjo and Fasoranti. You see, Fasoranti was a builder, a unifier, and a team player. Baba Adebanjo endorsed Obi without telling anybody. When they asked him on national TV, “Did you inform the elders and leaders?” he said, “I don’t have to”. On national TV, he said so. Baba Fasoranti would never do that. He was more of a replica of Awolowo. Many people don’t know that Awolowo never took a decision of his own. In Oyo State in 1979, his preference was Pa Alayandeto be governor. But he bowed to the wish of the majority. In Kwara State, his preference was Josiah Olawoyin. But he bowed to the wish of the majority. That’s Fasoranti for you. He attended meetings.
He will not say a word. He was listening to you. If you are taking a decision, and he saw maybe it was going to be a wrong decision, he will talk. Or if you asked about his opinion… Awolowo was exactly like that. Let me tell you my first experience of that, with Awolowo.
Which year was this?
I think it was in 1979. UPN was having a meeting at City Hall in Lagos. And I met Awolowo personally in his house as a student in 1977 or 78. I led a delegation from University of Ife to see him when the Students’ Union wanted to build a hostel. We called it Self-Help Hostel, Annex to Awolowo. We had seen many people, the Fernandes of this world , etc. The first time I met him, and he left a lasting impression. So when UPN was formed, I went there to see, and I heard that they were having a meeting at City Hall. I went there. I wasn’t invited. I wasn’t a member of the party. So I stood at a distance. I was listening to them. I couldn’t hear Awolowo speak. After waiting for about 10 minutes and I didn’t hear him speak, I said, well, maybe he wasn’t there. Then suddenly somebody said: “Now let’s listen to the leader”. I said “that’s him”. Soft spoken. You could hardly hear what he was saying. When we met him in his house in 1978, he asked us to wait. We, about three or four of us, were debating how should we greet him? Should we prostrate? And then we got to his sitting room, sparkling white rock in the middle. Soft spoken. Very nice. Unassuming. Awolowo in all his aura. You know, Fasoranti. It was like that. Baba Adebanjo was good in his own way, but he was not a team player. You attend a meeting with Baba Adebanjo, for one hour, he would speak for 59 minutes. If Baba Adebanjo asked you a question, he would be the one to answer. Before you answer, he would say “no, no, no, no, that’s not it”. But he was a great activist, a great motivator. Everybody has his good parts. For us, it was a no-brainer to support Tinubu.
I was also told that some older members are planning to form what they intend to call Afenifere Independent. What do you say to that?
Follow the truth. That’s what Thomas Jefferson said when he was referring to the founding of the University of Virginia, I think in 1820. Follow the truth, wherever it leads. We are focused on what Afenifere stands for. We are not distracted. There’s a positive to what you are saying in the sense that it is something that is good that is copied. I mean, if Afenifere wasn’t good, you wouldn’t have fake Afeniferes all about. As far as we are concerned, there’s only one Afenifere, and we want everybody to be part of the same family.
How soon is that?
We cannot say how soon or whether in fact it will happen. We can only say we will continue to try. We have seen it before now. We had Afenifere Egbe Ilosiwaju. It is typical of Yoruba. How many Ohanaeze Ndi Igbo do you know of?
I know two…
The second one only recently. How many Arewa Consultative Forum do you know? That’s the way we are. Everybody wants to do his own.
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